About
Hello there!
I live in Toronto, Canada and have recently started to fly RC airplanes.
Custom blog layout provided by: my lovely wife
Money to spend on R/C provided by: my CFO
Motivation and incentive provided by: my supporter
Airplane and helicopter crashes provided by: myself
Picture taken right after the maiden flight of my T-34 Mentor from E-Flite
Ow, how cute!
Love you!
Hi Sergio,
By accident, while I was looking for info of the Turnigy Typhoon 2215h on Google, I found your CopterX build log.
After watching your video “first hover and crash”, and see your quick improvements day by day. It is amazing. You’re so Good!!! (Thumbs Up).
I just finish building my CopterX 450 AE and I am a rc heli newbie, learning hovering in a condensed space like yours.
Would you mind show me your throttle and pitch curves set up you used for hovering in that video? It’s smooth, slow and stable when spooling up, not like mine, it is quick and fast left drift and hard to control…and keep crashing…
Looking forward to hear from you soon.
Thanks,
Don
dononeness@gmail.com
Thanks so much for your kind words, Don! You haven’t seen my second (and latest) crash… that might change your opinion
This is what I’m using on my DX6i:
Normal:
Throttle: 0 – 50 – 75 – 80 – 85
Pitch: 40 – 50 – 66 – 75 – 100
Idle-up:
Throttle: 100 – 90 – 88 – 90 – 100
Pitch: 0 – 25 – 50 – 75 – 100 (as it should always be when in idle-up, AFAIK)
Keep in mind that for the pitch curves what really matters is the actual pitch angle/degrees, not the values on my radio. I didn’t measure it at that time and now that it’s crashed (haven’t rebuilt it yet), I don’t know how much pitch it had.
One thing that made lots of difference to me was increasing my pitch and throttle curves around mid stick. Before, the heli felt too “slippery”, hard to hover in one place. Once I increased headspeed and added more pitch, it got way better.
At that time I was flying in normal mode (not idle-up), so the heli would take off when the throttle was almost 2 marks up from the centre on my DX6i. That’s about 70% stick, I’d say.
When spooling it up, I forced myself to move the throttle stick *just* a little bit at a time to slowly spool it up till I got the feeling of it. Maybe your ESC is not setup for super slow start? Which one are you using?
I hope you find a gym or a nice outdoor place to fly it, it should help you progress more quickly!
Cheers,
Sergio
Thank you so much for your reply Sergio..
You are so right about the blade pitch angle. I have never thought of that until last night, doing some research about throttle and pitch curves for hovering on the web, most of the articles I read was about blade pitch angle something like -1, +2, + 5, …etc and only some mentioned about the curve % values on the radio (by the way I am using dx7 which very similar to dx6i),
The values you provided are the ones before or after you increased head speed and added more pitch curves for a better fly?
I am still in the normal mode flying skill (mostly hovering indoor). When i try to move the throttle “very slow” to the point where I want to see the moment of the landing skids are first off the ground I always fail. Right after it is off the ground it starts sliding very fast to the left with uncontrollable speed.
I am using a cheap ESC 40A (Volcano series) from HobbyPartz and my motor is 3550kv from Helidirect for HDX450 heli. Another point, you just remindered me to check is my cheap ESC with “super slow start” mode set up…yes that could be one reason it does not go smoothly at the spooling up moment. I will check my ESC again tonight when I get home.
Thank you again so much for your info and suggestions…:=)
Looking forward to hear from you again soon,
Don
Hello again, Don! The values I wrote here were *after* I increased the headspeed and readjusted the throttle/pitch curves.
Can you post a video of the problem you’re mentioning when taking off? I’m not that experienced to know what could be wrong, but I’d start with the basic checklist:
- blade tracking
- blades balanced
- swashplate level
- linkage lengths
- servo horns and links at 90 degrees
- centre of gravity
- radio setup (swash mix, zero trim on cyclic, etc)
I’m sure if you post a video of this problem and ask on rcgroups you’ll be asking flyers way more experienced than me
Oh, one more thing: are you using a training gear?
Hay Sergio,
I just watched your video “first hover and crash” again and realized that when you spooled up your heli on your next day hover, the left skid of the heli got off first while the right skid is still on the ground and the heli tilted a bit to the right before it left off complete from the ground.
It explained to me why you did not have a natural left drift of any helis at the spooling up moment (which I am trying to fix this issue on my heli).
I wondered how your heli tilted a bit to the right when spooling up…??? Did you manage it with the right aileron stick or did you shortened the right aileron link to make the swash tilted a bit to the right to counter the left drift or did you use right aileron trim??? That is what I’ve been trying to achieve to counter the natural left drift of all helis but have not figured out a proper way to do it yet.
By the way, i did change my ESC from “Soft” to “Very Soft Start” and applied all the values you provided to my TX. The quick left drift seems to slow down a bit but not completely gone.
Sorry to bother you and hope you would mind to share your experiences.
Thanks,
Don
Hah! Good catch!
I was applying right aileron and a little bit of right rudder to counter the initial left drift. You definitely do not want to mechanically change your head/swashplate setup for this. I got this tip about applying right aileron and rudder from “RADD’s flight school“. I found it very useful for the first hovers (and it’s quite a funny read too). Note that it’s the training gear that makes takeoffs drift a lot to the left.
Once it’s hovering and high enough to avoid the ground effect (about two times the blade length), you don’t have to keep holding right aileron, it’s really only when taking off. By the way, my setup never required any trimming on the cyclic (elevator/aileron). I believe if when you’re hovering you feel the need to trim, it means something else is not setup properly.
Regarding the slow start: I’ve read the cheap ESC’s we use don’t have the super smooth slow start like an Align or CC ESC. The Turnigy Sentry is actually not that bad. I don’t know about this ESC from Hobbypartz — specially when each seller puts their own brand on it
Second Crash. Sorry to hear about it. The damage is not too bad but you can have a reason to save it as spares. Spending time for building a heli is as enjoyable to someone as to practicing flying it :=)
I am waiting for my new motor to come (2215h) so I can have more head speed for hovering, do i need to know anything to install it?…The Turnigy Sentry 40a switch-mode bec is hard to find and waiting for it to have stock and shipping from HK take weeks…but I guess shipping to Candada somehow faster than in USA.
I don’t see you use Copterx electronics (ESC, servos, …etc)? Is thete any special reasons?
Enjoy your time building the new helis.
Don
Indeed! I actually enjoyed building it the first time. Let’s see if I’ll still think the same after building 3 of them
Motor installation: basically this is enough. The motor screw length is important — 5mm is a good length.
Heh, shipping from HK to Canada takes about the same time as to the USA, but I never use EMS anyway. I had all electronics for the second heli here at home already, but had to wait weeks just for the ESC and tail servo to come back in stock some months ago.
I didn’t use the CopterX electronics simply because they were more expensive (compared to HK), lacked detailed information/specs and the few reports on rcgroups said they’re not really that great. I’ve been using the Turnigy ESCs (which are actually made by hobbywing.com) for all my planes and helis, not a problem whatsoever. So I’m sticking to those ESCs and I can then re-use the ESC programming card.
By the way, the Turnigy Plush 40 and 2215h motor are back in stock just now. You could just get the Plush version anyway and use a 3A UBEC instead. Still, I’ve seen lots of people using the Plush version without an external BEC without any problems.
Oh Wow! It is a surprise. First of all thanks for spending time replying all my messages :=)
In fact, I did go through some RAD’s training but I lost my patience and did not go all the way with it. I can see how useful it is now. I like the way you apply the right aileron and a bit of right rudder. I was not lucky enough to even hold my heli not to drifting so fast to the left to have time to try such methods. Something that is not right with my set up.
About the check list:
- blade tracking
- blades balanced
- swashplate level
- linkage lengths
- servo horns and links at 90 degrees
- centre of gravity
- radio setup (swash mix, zero trim on cyclic, etc).
Some of them I need to go over again to make sure it is properly set. The blade tracking is a bit tough because my eyes (wearing glass like yours) can barely see a distance of color track on the blade when I can not get closer while it is turning (is there a better way to do that?).
I use align 325mm CF blade and it is pretty balanced out of the box. The swashplate is leveled by a level tool so it is good. Servo horns are 90 degrees. COG is OK (parallel to the ground) head to toe. Linkages length I use Align 450se v2 manual (instead of Copterx) somehow I have to modify it a bit because it is not correct in the manual. Swash mix are 60%,60%,58% the rudder is a little low because at 60% it already gives me +/-11, a little high, right? The Throttle & Pitch curves are the ones you provided which give me -2,0,+3,+5,+10 in normal mode (???).
Thanks for the stock info, i found the 2215h in USA but almost double the price because I could not wait, it is coming tomorrow. I will use the ESC I have now and get a Hobbywing 40a (switch BEC) new version soon. The ESC 40a Volcano serie I have is a rebranded Hobbywing I think. But I am thinking to get a “real” Hobbywing soon.
I have never used Trimming before except when sub-trimming cyclic for 90 degree servo horn (not for rudder). Tomorrow, the 2215h will come and I will put it on to try and I hope it will get more stable so I can try the right aileron + left rudder to get it up properly.
As soon as I have chance will make a video to give you a better look of the problem. May be this weekend. Thanks again Sergio. Goodnight! Don
Oops, my bad – on the swash mix, i should say the “pitch” (not the rudder) is 60% gives me +/-11 a little high for hovering? so I put it down to 58% to get +/-10.
Just put the 2215h in – wow. I can tell how smooth it is compare to Sonix 3550kv. I need to recharge my battery to see how really strong it is. Anyway I like it I might have to get another one for my other heli. Thanks Sergio.
Sergio – I made a fist video today and wanted to show you but don’t know how to post it here. Don
Hi Don, just upload to Youtube and post the link here
I have so many typo and the problem is I can not edit it after submitting it the comment??? Anyway just wonder if i am able to post a video here for you? Thanks. Don
Hey – you’re online now…I have never posted any videos on line. Will try you Tube but do i have to register to post it on you tube? Thx.
Sergio – The Turnigy Sentry 40a is in currently stock. I’ve been waiting for that moment, will make an order ASAP but i would like to hear your comments on it. The Sentry 40a has an advantage of switch mode BEC but it only burst up to 43a (while the Plush 40a can burst up to 55a), I wonder since you have been using it with the high rpm motor (which I am using it too), do you have any problem with heat or anything…???
Btw, I like your new CopterX frame. Looks cool!!!
Thanks – Don
Hi Don!
I had the same doubt as you and concluded that with this motor we’re never pulling more than 40A anyway, so the 55A bursts were not necessary. I think the same applies to the stronger 2836-3700 which I have now running with my Sentry ESC. The temperature of the motor and ESC has always been great (measuring with HK’s digital thermometer), something between 20 or 30 celsius (don’t remember exactly).
Sergio
PS: Yeah, the SE version looks nicer! I’ll use the AE on my scale fuselage and keep the second SE frame as a spare